performance of 200 grain shockwaves.

[bubba]

My buddy shot a deer tuesday night with his traditions persuit xlt. He shoots 100 grains of pyrodex in 2 50 cal pellets. He also shoots a t/c 200 grain shockwave. Well he shot this deer at about 75 yards. The deer ran off after a good lung shot. There was very little blood to trail her, but we did find her after about a 500 yard tracking. She went to the water through the thick pines. Anyway when we looked her over there was no exit hole. During gutting the bullet was found against the opposite side ribs. The bullet never expanded and the plastic tip was still in it. It did take out both lungs mid way and there was some internal bleeding. Yes the deer did die, but without persistence, I doubt we would have found her.There was very little blood to trail, and little help from tracks in the leaves and pine needles. I have the bullet and will try to take pics to show how it looked after going through the deer. I had better penetration and terminal performance from my hawken and round balls.

[fulldrawxx75]

Bubba,

I have heard about this problem on other sites, the smaller, light weight sabot not getting total pass through. I bought and tried the 250 gr TC Shockwave w/ballistic tips, I am not all that impressed with them. They were terrible to load, and the showed very little sign of expansion. I went back to the all lead hollow points.
I am checking into some different makers and designs for next yr.
I have been told the bigger, heavier 300+ gr bullets work much better in the new in-lines, because they stabilize much faster with the faster barrel twists.
I also hear that the loose powder is the way to go, I am going back to loose after the pellets I have are gone.
I will keep ya posted on my finding.

FDXX75

[bubba]

I use the loose powder myself. In fact I am using goex ffg in my optima elite 90 grains. I have a 240 grain bullet mold from lee and mold my own bullets from lead and use a harvestor crush rib sabot with it. They load easy and shoot well and are terminal on deer. I could not get 300 grain bullets to stabilize ikn any of my muzzleloaders an omega a triumph and optima elite. 240 to 250 work well for me.

[Hollywood]

I had terrible luck with XTP 240 grain, nearly losing 2 deer the way Bubba described (the copper jacket would be right under the hide on entry & the lead that was left would'nt penetrate other side. I went to 348 Powerbelts - 100/pyrodex. BANG! ....FLOP. I shot a huge doe the first time out with this combo- behind shoulder- thru lungs about mid-ship- never touched bone & just threw that deer down from about 80 yards away. I've never dumped a deer hit there like that with any other load. Performance since then has been consistant with the first time.

[fulldrawxx75]

A hunting buddy shot a nice 6pt, 2 yrs ago with the same effect from a powerbelt. The shot was 125yds, broadside. He said the deer just disappeared, it dropped like a sack of flour out of second story window.

Personally, close enough is not good enough for me. I reload all my own ammo for that simple reason, I will play around with different bullets and powder until I find the right combo for that particular gun.
I just got this TC Omega and really have not had the time to dial it in as well as I would like, it will hit it's target, but I know it can do better.

FDXX75

[bubba]

I am the same way fulldraw. a 3 inch group at 100 yards doesnt cut it for me. I reload for everything and expect the same resultsa from a muzzleloader. But I also expect it to cleanly harvest what I shoot with it. Not sure which is worse a 3 inch group with dead deer or a clover leaf and chase the deer for 500 yards. I am starting to wonder. The shot he took was perfect. It was exactly where I would have put it, but I would expected the deer to run maybe 20 yards not 500 with no blood trail.

[fulldrawxx75]

For some reason this doesn't sound like a matter of accuracy as much as it does component performance.

I am not sure what the kenetic energy of that set up is at the yardage mentioned, there are ways of calculating it if you know the muzzle speed to start with.

You would think a 200gr bullet in front of 100grs of powder would do the trick, but stranger things have happened.

For example: I shot a buck about 8 yrs ago, broadside, 30yds, 7mm Rem Mag,Remington core-lok 175 gr bullet.
The deer was hit, ran 40 yds and falls down, still alive and laying there with a 3" hole in it's side. I am thinking WTH, finish off the deer. I am skinning him out and find a bullet in the opposite side in the rib meat. A nearly complete bullet, with one side completely flat?
The next morning I go back to the spot that I shot that buck and start tracing the bullet path, sure enough , 10 ft before the deer, there was a 1" dia. limb shot straight through.

My guess is the bullet hit it and started to tumble and hit him flat sided instead of nose first.

There was enough energy left in the bullet to hurt him (fatally) but not enough to do a total pass through after the branch hit.

I have a pic of the bullet, I will see if I can find it.

FDXX75

[bubba]

no it wasnt an accuracy thing. My point was I would give up some accuracy to make sure I had the oomph to kill the deer. I like the idea of having extremely accurate guns butr not if they wont kill the animal humanely

[fulldrawxx75]

Geez, after I reread my last post, it sounded like I was saying my 7mm was not a good deer gun.

My point was to show that even a great caliber like the 7mm, strange things can happen. I stopped using the 175gr core-loc yrs ago. I was not happy with the performance of the bullet.

I now handload the 154gr Noslar ballistic tip, now that there will put the smack down on a deer.

FDXX75

[bubba]

I use a 7mm-08 and I load with sierra game king 140 grain bullets. Man I know what you mean. I also shoot a 270 barrel on my optima elite. I load 130 grain winchester nosler basllistic tips bullets for it. They will do the number also.

[fulldrawxx75]

My cousin bought a new Ruger in 7mm-08, I shot it last fall. Nice gun. I already have more guns than I know what to do with, sound familiar. LOL.

Funny story, I bought my daughter a new bedroom set, I was moving the old bed out and pusked in the corner is a gun case. I am thinking what the heck? Open it up, Holy moly. It was my .223/20ga combo gun, forgot I even had it. I guess that is the point in your life you realize you do have to many guns. LOL

FDXX75

[bubba]

lol I know the feeling. I purchase at elast 6 a year. Mind you I dont keep them all, I trade and swap and buy when I get a deal. But you can never have too many. There is always something else out there worth havibg one or two of. I buy a gun do the work to get it shooting well and get bored with it. So it goes in the safe, or on the sell/trade block depending on how much I like the way it shoots. Then I get a new one and start the whole thing over again. I am looking for a model 99 in 250-3000 savage to go with my model 99 in 300 savage. I inherited the 300 from my dad. I am a real fan of the small bores 243 25 caliber etc.

[fulldrawxx75]

I noticed you mentioned the 300 Savage in the reloading thread and again here, I also inherited a model 99 in that caliber. I got it from my late great uncle, it was his favorite rifle. I really like that little gun, it handles well and fits me like a glove.

Two yrs ago, I bought a new Model 700 in 300 Savage, the commerative edition. I am beginning to really like this round for deer, it shots real well and puts the necessary hitting power on them.

FDXX75

[bubba]

I love mine but of course, as ststed it was my Dad's. He bought it brand new in 1948 for 76 dollars. I truly like it as far a s a caliber goes also. I do not use it much though because of the sentimantal value it has and my fear of damaging it when we are stomping around in the swamp making drives. I do however carry it when I go to field sit in the evenings. Most definitely all the knock down power you need. I have been pondering the idea of having a barrel made for my encore in 300 and having a 250 barrel done also at the custom shop. With the rotary magazine and shell counter on the side of the receiver my dad called his the adding machine and I still do also.

[fulldrawxx75]

I bought the Rem Mod 700 for that very reason, my great uncle bought his after coming home from the war and used it for over 40 yrs. He handed it down to me a few yrs before he passed away. I really took to the caliber while using the 99. I started out attempting to build a custom rifle in the caliber, but after a yr waiting for an action, I opted to good with the mod 700.

FDXX75