Gas leases gone wild! Will we pay in the end!!!!!

[Burt]

Gang,
I am a landowner and will benefit from the current gas leasing going on in NY. After doing much research and blog watching it seems to me that 99% of land owners I see on the gas lease forum don't mention a thing about the environmental impact on our land or our hunting season! It is all about money, money and more money. I'm sure many of the land owners are hunters but what would they think about well drilling in mid October on there property? How about lowering the levels of there favorite trout stream or even better contaminating there drinking well? I am not a tree hugger and understand the impact this will have for the economy of upstate but the place we love as outdoors people is going to be invaded in the Catskills and Finger lakes by money hungry gas people with only there interests in hand! The DEC is not ready for the invasion they don't even know where all the contaminated water will be processed
after the drilling. I just want to know what you all think-I will when a lease is signed will have a number of addendum's included to see fit that my recreational property does not turn into a waste land! Land owner coalitions have formed to benefit the land owner maybe we need a Sportsman coalition to have our voices heard in Albany!

[joel]

this is the first im hearing about this.what gas leases are you talking about?where did you hear about it?i read all the outdoor stuff and the NY outdoor news and havent seen anything.could ya send me some links.I want to research this beofr i start pregnant doging out the goverment again

[Burt]

Joel,
Go to www.pagaslease.com/ and go to natural gas lease forum/natural gas leasing/ new york and hold onto your hat!
The Marcellus shale sits under WV,PA and NY. The core area is Delaware, Tioga and Broome county. The gas companies are paying $3,000 per acre with a 12.5 royalty for 5yrs. Someone in Broome county was handed a check for $227,000 this week.This is only the begining, you have to look at the Barnett shale play in Texas to see the scope of what is to happen. Google all this info and you will see.
Why do you think there was a pipeline being put in for the last couple of years from as far as western NY all the way down to the city.
The DEC has it's hands full there are going to be trucks and more trucks all over the place, this will not happen over night but as the Barnett play came to full swing the gas companies were drilling every where and paying get this-20,000 per acre, that is no bull!
The problem is it happen so fast that the gas companies used immenent (not sure of the term?) domain to use landowners property to run the underground gas lines, it's a real shame. Look, a lot of people are going to make money they never dreamed of and that is great but it has to be done right and at a slow pace. They are going to use horizontal drilling, thats how they got the Texas gas, Patterson just passed yesterday ok'ing this type of drilling.
Maybe Pete Granis was put in the DEC for this reason?? I can go on and on, check it out-Our world west of Liberty NY is about to change big time!

[joel]

thanks for the links.i just did a quick once over and will go back to it later.the potential for environmental damage is there no doubt but with the energy crisis this country is facing and the screams of drill anywhere its gona be hard to stop this.Some of these areas are really broke too so it may benifit the people who live there.i saw some pipe line work actually wherei hunt.they came in dug it up and moved on the area is actually no worse off for it .it actually created some openings and new browse for the deer.This is a tough call without reading all of it.again thanks for the info i will be looking into this alot more

[Burt]

I agree, there is a huge demand for the gas and those areas need the economic benefit from it.
If the drilling is done correctly I believe everything will be fine. I own 54 acres
and hopefully will benefit from it but I will be real careful when signing the next gas lease.

[joel]

then you might want too join one of those landowner groups.best of luck to ya and keep us updated im going to be following this.also have you contacted any of the big news outlets yet?or even the smaller ones like NY outdoor news,

[Burt]

Sent an Email to steve at Outdoor News last night.

[joel]

glad to hear it.maybe now they'll have some real news lol ;D

[joel]

this topic made the NY times this sunday.apearently some of the propossed wells are in the NYC watershed area

[Burt]

There is a lot of press lately about it. Because we are in the NY area things will be looked at with a fine tooth comb! Some people who want to lease there land may not be able to due to the water shed.

[joel]

yep thats what the article said theDEP are hard nosed sob's thankfully

[CJ]

Well you got my brother's dander up. He is a landman in Texas and is responsible for the gas leases y'all are talking about.

Here is his reply after reading what was posted.


1. Most oil and gas men are hunters-including the lion's share of guys I work with-as a result they care deeply about both the mineral interests AND THE SURFACE! Our industry has one of the best environmental impact records of all industries. Our land people negotiate out surface interests as much as possible and bend over backwards to limit wellsite dimensions, access roads, pipeline rights-of-way, and hunting lease surface uses as stated by the landowners. Additionally, WE PAY DEARLY FOR ANY MARKETABLE TIMBER AND/OR CROPS THAT WE DISTURB AND PAY COMPETITIVE SURFACE DAMAGE CLAIMS USUALLY ERRING ON THE SIDE OF OVERPAYING!

2. Wells aren't drilled "all over the place" as every gas well costs between 2-10 million dollars (oil wells cost even more) to drill-as a result operators only attempt to secure permits where there is an EXTREMELY HIGH LIKELIHOOD of hitting natural gas-to do otherwise simply does not make good business sense.

3. The NYS DEC is one of the best oil and gas regulatory agencies in the U.S. and has one of the most prohibitive and well thought out conservation policies in the country with respect to mining and drilling. Every permit application is scrutinized word for word, the public is invited to comment during statutory hearings, ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STUDIES are examined by industry experts and knowledgable beurocrats, and onerous, arduous, convoluted, laws, regulations, and advisory opinions are painstakingly examined by state and local officials to ensure that the operator's are, and will stay, in compliance prior to any permit ever being issued.

4. While drilling in October is possible, disrupting the hunting season-it's important to remember that a gas well is being drilled night and day for ONLY three weeks and then is largely a SILENT operation. Animals (with the exception of snakes who gravitate towards the vibrations and heat eminating from the drilling rig)tend to shun areas where dilling occurs as they prefer grazing on the corn and grass surrounding the well as opposed to wandering aimlessly around the 40' x 60' concrete pad. My point being-the animals were only arguably going to be in the well area even if the well wasn't there! In Texas, cows graze peacefully around the wells and pigs ignore any area they can't root up. Horses are a problem, so we pay to put up fencing. THE LANDOWNERS ARE ONLY NOMINALLY INCONVENIENCED BY THE WELL SITE AND LOSS OF HABITAT-BY WAY OF COMPARISON THEY ARE PAID EXTREMELY WELL BY MY INDUSTRY FOR THAT INCONVENIENCE! (by the way-we actually are paying 28,000 per acre in some areas here-

5. We want the minerals 5000-12,000 feet below the surface-we could care less about the surface and we only need very little of it for our operations. The blogger who complained about "eminent domain" with respect to pipelines failed to tell you that our industry only resorts to this measure after lengthy failed negotiations with the surface owner. Our Right-of-Way Agents typically end up paying four times the appraised market value of the land to get a pipeline easement. only after some curmudgeon holds out at that price do we turn to the courts for a remedy to avoid the costs of a project failure or pipeline re-route and even then we end up paying fair market value for the 24-36" of subsurface that we disturb and end up paying surface damages as well. usually we clean up the easement better than when we found it and put an access road in along the right of way (usually along property boundary lines) that the landowner also benefits from (better access to his own hunting land and fields).

[joel]

well,i didnt have anything really bad to say so dont know what hes mad at me for.Burt is directly effected so i can understand his concerns and im sure it dont take much oil to screw up the drinking water though,dont care how much they are fined if you pollute the watershed .

[Burt]

Eight Point,
Your brother's comments are pretty much on the money. I respect his knowledge of the issue. Yes NYDEC is doing a good job and things are slowing down to the point that gas companies have halted leasing until the enviromental issues are sorted out. I too have someone close to me who actually is employing landmen as we speak and they are out there to get the best deal for the company at the lowest price. They want you to sign those boiler-plate leases that favor the gas company big time. It is not to say that all people in the industry work this way but the majority do, they are hired for this one reason. If you are approached you better get a good GAS lawyer and hope that things turn out in your favor. I believe NY will do a good job with the whole play but we need some time to sort things out.
Best to the "Texas Landman"

[CJ]

If you are approached you better get a good GAS lawyer and hope that things turn out in your favor.

AGREED!!!
My brother is a landman and a lawyer. The gas companies all have lawyers working for them.